Clever with Amy Devers

Amy Devers has a genuine gift for getting people to drop their guard. As a designer, fabricator, and TV host, she brings a hands-on maker's sensibility to every interview, and her guests clearly feel it. Clever is an award-winning, independently produced podcast with over 200 episodes, and the guest list spans architects, graphic designers, fashion designers, multidisciplinary artists, and creative thinkers from all kinds of backgrounds. What makes the show distinctive is Devers' interviewing style. She calls it "raw candor and honest shop-talk," and that is pretty accurate. These are not polished PR conversations. She asks about the gritty parts of creative careers -- the failures, the pivots, the moments of self-doubt -- and guests consistently open up in ways they might not on other shows. Episodes release biweekly and typically run 45 minutes to an hour. The production is independent, with music by the band El Ten Eleven, which gives the whole thing a warm, artsy feel without being precious about it. There is also a spinoff series called Clever Confidential that digs into the darker, lesser-told stories of design history -- the sordid tales hiding under glossy legacies. That series alone is worth a listen for anyone interested in design's complicated past. If you want to understand the humanity behind the objects, buildings, and visual culture we live with every day, Clever is one of the most genuine shows doing that work right now.